From Colombia to Venezuela
September 4, 2008
He was in Colombia at the day of July liberation of hostages that at that time became the center of attention of the world mass media. Being his friends, we worried about Oleg and being overcautious, did not inform anything about this trip.
Oleg's story will permit to understand better the situation in the country, where half a century war is going on between left guerillas and the power. It will also enable to compare on the contrast the Colombian realia with the life of the Bolivarian Venezuela.
— Oleg, tell us about your trip to Colombia. What regions did you manage to visit and how different is the life of people of that country from the pictures of CNN?
— The purpose of that trip was acquaintance with the life of people in the country, which has become the thick of journalist rumors and gossips. In the country with the most pro-American and at the same time the most supported by the population government of Latin America. With the oldest in Latin America guerilla movement. And the most frightening in the region statistics of political murders.
Besides Bogota, where the plane comes, I managed to see a little of Tolima province, in which 50 years ago the guerilla movement began to emerge; «Coffee axis» with the center in the town of Armenia, the calmest zone of Colombia and with the highest living standard; as well as Choco province — in the direction to the Pacific ocean coastline and the border with Panama, the poorest and the most neglected part of the country; and the «hottest» in terms of military conflict zone - the Cauca river valley and municipality Florida and Pradera, where the presence of FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia — Army of the People) is felt rather perceptibly.
The biggest impression is people of Colombia — very hospitable, sincere, benevolent, hardworking and beautiful. The image of Colombians has nothing to do with the one imposed by Hollywood - as drug traffickers, bandits and, at best, prostitutes. The country is very beautiful and versatile. In general, Colombia resembles a micro model of the whole Latin America due to mixture of traditions, cultures and scenery. And after tasting the real Colombian coffee it is very difficult to get used to any other brands of coffee. However, it is impossible to speak on political topics with unknown people.
Besides Bogota, where the plane comes, I managed to see a little of Tolima province, in which 50 years ago the guerilla movement began to emerge; «Coffee axis» with the center in the town of Armenia, the calmest zone of Colombia and with the highest living standard; as well as Choco province — in the direction to the Pacific ocean coastline and the border with Panama, the poorest and the most neglected part of the country; and the «hottest» in terms of military conflict zone - the Cauca river valley and municipality Florida and Pradera, where the presence of FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia — Army of the People) is felt rather perceptibly.
The biggest impression is people of Colombia — very hospitable, sincere, benevolent, hardworking and beautiful. The image of Colombians has nothing to do with the one imposed by Hollywood - as drug traffickers, bandits and, at best, prostitutes. The country is very beautiful and versatile. In general, Colombia resembles a micro model of the whole Latin America due to mixture of traditions, cultures and scenery. And after tasting the real Colombian coffee it is very difficult to get used to any other brands of coffee. However, it is impossible to speak on political topics with unknown people.
— Actually, we shifted to political subject. What is the present political and military situation in this specific country?
— If we speak about a foreign political aspect, everything is rather simple. Colombia — is the closest partner ... although not, as partnership presupposes certain equality ... to put it more exactly — the closest military branch of the USA. And also — a springboard for pressure and possibly for invasion to neighbouring Venezuela and Ecuador. The USA render the government of Colombia unlimited military assistance in the struggle against «threat of terrorism». Although officially the government does not admit presence of any armed conflict in the country.
— In fact, civil war?
— In order to admit civil war it would have been necessary to recognise the status of guerillas as the fighting side and observe all international conventions. Today aviation and artillery almost in half departments of the country almost round-the-clock bombards selva, but officially the government rejects the «armed conflict» in the country. It is easier to declare the guerillas bandits and terrorists, putting them outside the law. And for any unauthorized by the government contact (or just a talk) with guerillas one can go to prison for complicity in terrorism. At the same time the guerillas control some part of the territory, though much less than before. Real power in major part of provinces belongs to ultra right fighters — paramilitares - like death squadrons, or guerillas from FARC and ELN. In order to get to many villages, one should ask permission only from these structures. Sometimes they say «yes». But very often they say «no». And if you try to enter there without permission — it is fraught with serious problems.
The right government of Uribe that enjoys the support of 80% of population is at power in the country. In the past, being a provincial mayor, the president Alvaro Uribe was one of the founders of groups of ultra right fighters. According to official mythology it is thought that his father was killed by FARC guerillas during a kidnapping attempt. But in reality he was killed by drug dealers during their inner shoot-outs. But in Colombia it is better not to touch these subjects.
Main occupation of ultra right fighters is annihilation of guerillas and sympathising to them people and also all trade union activists and dissidents. As well as active drug trafficking. They've been trained and armed by the Colombian army. Uribe — is a protégé of paramilitary-trafficking circles. This is a general context of the Colombian drama.
The right government of Uribe that enjoys the support of 80% of population is at power in the country. In the past, being a provincial mayor, the president Alvaro Uribe was one of the founders of groups of ultra right fighters. According to official mythology it is thought that his father was killed by FARC guerillas during a kidnapping attempt. But in reality he was killed by drug dealers during their inner shoot-outs. But in Colombia it is better not to touch these subjects.
Main occupation of ultra right fighters is annihilation of guerillas and sympathising to them people and also all trade union activists and dissidents. As well as active drug trafficking. They've been trained and armed by the Colombian army. Uribe — is a protégé of paramilitary-trafficking circles. This is a general context of the Colombian drama.
— What is the reason for popularity of Uribe regime? Is it a kind of political masochism?
— Uribe is an excellent actor. And populist to the full sense of this word. He excellently uses the mass media that are under his control. And creates the image of very serious and responsible politician. FARC and left guerillas in general are not popular in the country that is tired of violence. And in the eyes of a man in the street Uribe is the first president that successfully fights them. He managed to convince Colombians that the main problem of the country is FARC, and in case of victory over FARC the life will change to better. Though, of course, it is nonsense. In conditions of outrageously unjust distribution of land that has not changed for the last 100 years. Whether with FARC or without FARC peasants discontent will not stop — moreover in the present context of neo-liberal reforms. Out of 36 000 Colombians that died by violent death last year, victims of domestic military conflict are about 8%. FARC is responsible for not more than 2%. The rest were killed by paramilitaries and army. Paramilitares kill ten times more than guerillas. Army kills many people only on suspicion that they are guerillas, although it is not like that. But in Colombian remote areas justice is a rather relative phenomenon. And relatives of those killed are afraid to fight for the truth.
— Does mass media speak about it?
— No, Colombian mass media is totally subordinate to oligarchy and government. And international agencies, like CNN, accordingly, have their own authorities. There is another nuance, formally the government also struggles against paramilitares. Mass media insist that some years ago the paramilitares were disarmed and stood before court. But the commanders of paramilitares are personal friends of military commanders and politicians of the highest echelon. And all of them are united by a traditional ideological closeness as well as ties in the USA. «Economic» point is also very important — almost 80% of the world cocaine is produced in Colombia and more than 80% of its market comes to the USA. All coca plantations are illegal but almost all suitable areas of the country for growing coca are planted with coca. And for majority of peasants coca - is the only real source of income.
— All independent observers state that the government does not fight production and trafficking of cocaine.
— Nominally the governments of Colombia and the USA carry out struggle against coca. But it is funny if we look at the actual state of things. Besides, one should understand that if peasants grow tomatoes or bananas they will just starve to death. There is no infrastructure of roads, no credits and federal support. There is nothing of the kind. And the repressive policy against drug trafficking only increases the profitability of the business. At that, main profit most likely remains in the USA. Today paramilitares and guerillas fight with each other for plantations zones. And peasants find themselves under the cross fire and run away leaving their lands. Nowadays totally in Colombian cities and adjacent countries there are about 5 million displaced Colombian peasants (only in Venezuela there are more than 2 million).
— Now let's come to the topic of FARC guerillas. You were present in the country during liberation of Ingrid Betancourt and other hostages. Is official version of the Uribe government truthful? And in what position are present Colombian guerillas?
— The truth of FARC demands does not cause any doubts in any normal person. But their methods, especially beginning from mid 80s more and more depart from those that many of us got used to believe to be the revolutionary ethics. To my opinion, one of the reasons for this is that at a certain moment the military criteria prevailed over the political one. In other words, influence in the leadership of FARC began to depend on military achievements more than on lucidity of ideas.
In the provinces where they fight, oligarchs and generals do not die along with guerillas, but ordinary soldiers, policemen and paramilitares, who were forced into this organisation, - the same children of the people, in the name of which FARC is struggling. Peasants have to cooperate both with either side, otherwise they are just killed. Therefore, among the people there is no «adoration» of FARC.
FARC leadership, starting from the 80s, headed to quick growth of the organisation ranks. A lot of youngsters and totally casual people and all this without any special ideological work found themselves among the guerillas. There was a militar priority and for many hungry peasants joining the guerillas was a practical way out: they were guaranteed food, they got weapons and certain status. Before that they were hungry and defenceless. The organisation grew so big on the territory of the whole country that it has become practically impossible to control the actions of every commander from the center. Then they started kidnapping everybody. For a poor peasant a person from the city, who has a house and a car — is already a bourgeois, from whom he can get money for the cause of revolution. And if he refuses to give — then he is an enemy.
It is also necessary to take into consideration that in the 80s FARC already tried to get partially legalised and set up a legal party the Patriotic Union (Union Patriotica). Guerillas, to be more exact their best political personnel, came down from the mountains, put down arms and went in for politics in cities. Within 6 months the death squadrons murdered 5000 of them, i.e. the majority. It was a clear signal for those remained in the mountains. After that they resorted to kidnapping as a method, which alienated the bigger part of the population from guerillas. They say, they were of a strong opinion that kidnapped military and politicians can be exchanged for captured guerillas. If it were unlikely even at that time, then when Uribe came to power it became impossible at all. In the result, having at their hands almost a thousand prisoners that had to be protected, fed, treated, guerillas lost mobility. Guerillas started to retreat and step back to mountains and selva. Those kidnapped were often kept in very sever conditions, and that was not Uribe's propaganda, it was a reality. But unlike army and paramilitares, they are not tortured and chain-sawed — it is also true.
In the provinces where they fight, oligarchs and generals do not die along with guerillas, but ordinary soldiers, policemen and paramilitares, who were forced into this organisation, - the same children of the people, in the name of which FARC is struggling. Peasants have to cooperate both with either side, otherwise they are just killed. Therefore, among the people there is no «adoration» of FARC.
FARC leadership, starting from the 80s, headed to quick growth of the organisation ranks. A lot of youngsters and totally casual people and all this without any special ideological work found themselves among the guerillas. There was a militar priority and for many hungry peasants joining the guerillas was a practical way out: they were guaranteed food, they got weapons and certain status. Before that they were hungry and defenceless. The organisation grew so big on the territory of the whole country that it has become practically impossible to control the actions of every commander from the center. Then they started kidnapping everybody. For a poor peasant a person from the city, who has a house and a car — is already a bourgeois, from whom he can get money for the cause of revolution. And if he refuses to give — then he is an enemy.
It is also necessary to take into consideration that in the 80s FARC already tried to get partially legalised and set up a legal party the Patriotic Union (Union Patriotica). Guerillas, to be more exact their best political personnel, came down from the mountains, put down arms and went in for politics in cities. Within 6 months the death squadrons murdered 5000 of them, i.e. the majority. It was a clear signal for those remained in the mountains. After that they resorted to kidnapping as a method, which alienated the bigger part of the population from guerillas. They say, they were of a strong opinion that kidnapped military and politicians can be exchanged for captured guerillas. If it were unlikely even at that time, then when Uribe came to power it became impossible at all. In the result, having at their hands almost a thousand prisoners that had to be protected, fed, treated, guerillas lost mobility. Guerillas started to retreat and step back to mountains and selva. Those kidnapped were often kept in very sever conditions, and that was not Uribe's propaganda, it was a reality. But unlike army and paramilitares, they are not tortured and chain-sawed — it is also true.
— Let's come to the sensational story of liberation of hostages with Betancourt at the top.
— The government used to tell many times that it is not interested in any agreements with guerillas. Unconditional surrender — was their stake. Guerillas commander Raul Reyes was killed when FARC through intermediary of Chavez unilaterally liberated the prisoners. Continuation of this process was interfering the image of Uribe.
After preliminary contacts, negotiations and guarantees, Ingrid Betancourt and 14 other prisoners, the most important ones, were collected in one place. In this operation the army used the symbols of Red Cross and TeleSur (independent Bolivarian TV channel with the center in Venezuela) that is a flagrant violation of Geneva Conventions. Simply speaking FARC was deceived. And that was another signal for even greater distrust. And the remaining hundreds other prisoners are not interesting for anyone, except for their relatives. And the more they die in the hands of FARC, the more political cream will get Uribe.
I think it is not by chance that the operation to liberate Betancourt and others, including three American citizens, took place right after Uribe once again violating the constitution nominated himself for the third presidential term. The successful show actually guaranteed his re-election; within a couple of hours his rating increased from 78 to 84%.
FARC is leaving through a very serious crisis. But it is also too early to speak that guerillas are almost destroyed. There is another point: the Uribe government stimulates massive squealering. At all stops and airports they offer multi-million compensations for information about «heads of terrorists». And in poor hungry country (I mean real Colombian peasants and not tourist areas of Bogota or Cartagena beaches) it is quite effective. In the country there is a lot of tiredness from violence and a lot of fear of the power. Nobody knows practically anything in Colombia about reality of Venezuela except for residents of frontier towns, where plain people love Chavez. But a commonplace Colombian citizen believes in a caricature image of Chavez imposed on him through the mass media that are under control of government and oligarchs. But here we should give credit for Uribe — he skillfully uses any mistake or clumsy phrase of Chavez.
After preliminary contacts, negotiations and guarantees, Ingrid Betancourt and 14 other prisoners, the most important ones, were collected in one place. In this operation the army used the symbols of Red Cross and TeleSur (independent Bolivarian TV channel with the center in Venezuela) that is a flagrant violation of Geneva Conventions. Simply speaking FARC was deceived. And that was another signal for even greater distrust. And the remaining hundreds other prisoners are not interesting for anyone, except for their relatives. And the more they die in the hands of FARC, the more political cream will get Uribe.
I think it is not by chance that the operation to liberate Betancourt and others, including three American citizens, took place right after Uribe once again violating the constitution nominated himself for the third presidential term. The successful show actually guaranteed his re-election; within a couple of hours his rating increased from 78 to 84%.
FARC is leaving through a very serious crisis. But it is also too early to speak that guerillas are almost destroyed. There is another point: the Uribe government stimulates massive squealering. At all stops and airports they offer multi-million compensations for information about «heads of terrorists». And in poor hungry country (I mean real Colombian peasants and not tourist areas of Bogota or Cartagena beaches) it is quite effective. In the country there is a lot of tiredness from violence and a lot of fear of the power. Nobody knows practically anything in Colombia about reality of Venezuela except for residents of frontier towns, where plain people love Chavez. But a commonplace Colombian citizen believes in a caricature image of Chavez imposed on him through the mass media that are under control of government and oligarchs. But here we should give credit for Uribe — he skillfully uses any mistake or clumsy phrase of Chavez.
— Did you feel any difference having come from Colombia to Venezuela?
— I got into another world. People in Colombia are abandoned, nobody needs them. The fear is hanging in Colombian air. Poor people are not protected by anyone or anything. Total despair and forlornness. I realize that it looks like a propaganda cliche but in Venezuela everybody is really guaranteed free health care, education and food. For the poor that constitute the bigger portion of the country, it means radical change of their life. All this started 10 years ago when Chavez came to power, and therefore, people love him.
All freely discuss any subject, there is no fear. And the most important — PEOPLE ARE GETTING ORGANISED (capitalized by O.Ya.). There are a lot of other problems but God grant the problems of this kind to Colombia!
Many things are comprehended differently from inside Venezuela ... The issues like how long can Chavez stay at power, how many times he can get re-elected, just lose any sense when you actually see that at that stage of revolutionary process it is him, who is the best guarantor of irreversibility of the process. And the attitude of people towards him — it is not so «support» or «trust» as actually «love»: he is conceived rather as a close relative than a politician.
I understand how unsteady and vulnerable everything that depends upon the only one person, but today in Venezuela it is just like that. And this also will have to be overcome.
Among the most urgent problems in Venezuela I would call, first of all, corruption and bureaucracy in the government. They have become a bigger threat to the revolutionary process than outer opposition and Bush. In fact it is the fifth column. These functionaries pretend to support the process, because today in Venezuela there is big money and they gain from it. At that, nets of corruption exist in all spheres — among politicians, military, businessmen, police. Crime rate is high, the police are corrupted to the core, power bodies are often inefficient.
But the result of the struggle will be decided by only one thing — that is, by degree of organization of the people from the «bottom». And I could see it with my own eyes how it happens. For example, in order to get state credits or financing of social projects it is necessary to create organisations: cooperatives, quarter councils. And all this acts. And everything is discussed. The land is returned to peasants, they hand over equipment, technologies and they are given interest-free credits.
Venezuela becomes the most reading country of the region: last year more books were bought than in Argentine, though previously the Venezuelans hardly read anything.
And another confirmation to seriousness of the Venezuelan revolution — at the shores of Venezuela there is the US Fourth fleet that is brought into a state of alert ... activated six months ago for the first time since World War II.
All freely discuss any subject, there is no fear. And the most important — PEOPLE ARE GETTING ORGANISED (capitalized by O.Ya.). There are a lot of other problems but God grant the problems of this kind to Colombia!
Many things are comprehended differently from inside Venezuela ... The issues like how long can Chavez stay at power, how many times he can get re-elected, just lose any sense when you actually see that at that stage of revolutionary process it is him, who is the best guarantor of irreversibility of the process. And the attitude of people towards him — it is not so «support» or «trust» as actually «love»: he is conceived rather as a close relative than a politician.
I understand how unsteady and vulnerable everything that depends upon the only one person, but today in Venezuela it is just like that. And this also will have to be overcome.
Among the most urgent problems in Venezuela I would call, first of all, corruption and bureaucracy in the government. They have become a bigger threat to the revolutionary process than outer opposition and Bush. In fact it is the fifth column. These functionaries pretend to support the process, because today in Venezuela there is big money and they gain from it. At that, nets of corruption exist in all spheres — among politicians, military, businessmen, police. Crime rate is high, the police are corrupted to the core, power bodies are often inefficient.
But the result of the struggle will be decided by only one thing — that is, by degree of organization of the people from the «bottom». And I could see it with my own eyes how it happens. For example, in order to get state credits or financing of social projects it is necessary to create organisations: cooperatives, quarter councils. And all this acts. And everything is discussed. The land is returned to peasants, they hand over equipment, technologies and they are given interest-free credits.
Venezuela becomes the most reading country of the region: last year more books were bought than in Argentine, though previously the Venezuelans hardly read anything.
And another confirmation to seriousness of the Venezuelan revolution — at the shores of Venezuela there is the US Fourth fleet that is brought into a state of alert ... activated six months ago for the first time since World War II.
— World mass media speak about Chavez as an enemy of freedom of speech. Is it true?
— In Venezuela there exists almost complete freedom of opposition mass media. Their warfare against Chavez never stops. If in Chile the Allende government had concentrated 30% of mass media, and 70% were under control of the right opposition, in Venezuela under «awful dictatorship of Chavez», the government has not more than 20%, whereas the opposition has 80%! And the opposition press is financed from abroad. Generally, if one can accuse the Chavez government, it is of excessive gentleness.
In Venezuela there is a lot of ultra-right fighters from Colombia that are hired by landlords to kill peasants activists. «Paras» distribute drugs free of charge in poor quarters. In the students city of Merida Colombian paramilitares with arms in hands took part in protests of students and fired at police, thus provoking their reciprocal actions. The justice of Venezuela is very slow, and all lawyers are from the opposition. And Chavez demands only legal actions. Many people's organisations expect from him more decisive actions.
In Venezuela there is a lot of ultra-right fighters from Colombia that are hired by landlords to kill peasants activists. «Paras» distribute drugs free of charge in poor quarters. In the students city of Merida Colombian paramilitares with arms in hands took part in protests of students and fired at police, thus provoking their reciprocal actions. The justice of Venezuela is very slow, and all lawyers are from the opposition. And Chavez demands only legal actions. Many people's organisations expect from him more decisive actions.